Secretary, on the last occasion that we had estimates, I asked Mr Jeffrey—it might be useful if he comes forward—about export controls over the parts for the F-35 fighter jet, and I asked the department if they were aware of F-35s being used by the Israeli military to bomb and apply weapons into Gaza. Mr Jeffrey, you said: ‘I don’t know if F-35s are being used in the conflict in Gaza.’ Are you now aware of whether or not F-35s are being used in the conflict in Gaza?
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: I’m sure there’ll be bucketloads of transparency, Minister! Secretary, on the last occasion that we had estimates, I asked Mr Jeffrey—it might be useful if he comes forward—about export controls over the parts for the F-35 fighter jet, and I asked the department if they were aware of F-35s being used by the Israeli military to bomb and apply weapons into Gaza. Mr Jeffrey, you said: ‘I don’t know if F-35s are being used in the conflict in Gaza.’ Are you now aware of whether or not F-35s are being used in the conflict in Gaza?
Mr Jeffrey : I’m aware of reports, but I’m not going to speak for the Israeli government on how it engages in force employment. I’m aware that the F-35 is a part of Israel’s defence capability. I would presume that it is being employed in the context of military operations, but I’m not in a position to confirm what the Israeli government is doing in relation to force employment.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: I’m assuming the weapon components produced by Australia for the F-35 fighter jet are part of your export control project. The export of bomb-bay-door actuators and other parts of the F-35, I presume, are part of the export control framework.
Mr Jeffrey : That’s correct. As you know, any item on the Defence and Strategic Goods List that is controlled would need to seek a permit.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: But, just to be clear, the parts of the F-35 fighter jet are part of what is considered in your remit?
Mr Jeffrey : That’s correct. F-35 components, or Australia’s contributions to the global supply chain on F-35 parts, would require a permit before being exported.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: The regulations require your department, before you give a permit, to determine whether the export of the goods may do the following:
1. may aggravate:
1. an existing threat to international peace and security or to the peace and security of a region; or
2. a particular event or conflict of concern to Australia; or
2. may otherwise contribute to political instability …
I find it hard to understand how you did your job and you looked at the risks for exporting F-35 fighter parts if you hadn’t even worked out that they were being used in the conflict in Gaza. How could you possibly have undertaken your statutory obligations?
Mr Jeffrey : Can you rephrase the question? I’m struggling to know exactly what you’re asking.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: The regulations require you, before your department issues an export permit for F-35 fighter parts, to consider whether or not the export of those goods may do the following:
1. may aggravate:
1. an existing threat to international peace and security or to the peace and security of a region; or
2. a particular event or conflict of concern to Australia; or
2. may otherwise contribute to political instability internationally or in a particular region …
You hadn’t even done your basic homework to find out whether or not F-35 fighter jets were being used in the bombing of Gaza. How can we be satisfied you did your job?
Mr Jeffrey : Senator, I’m not sure you understand how the export control process works in relation to the F-35 components and parts that the Australian industry contributes to. As you know—I think we’ve explained this before—we are part of a consortium on the F-35 capability. That is all exported to a central repository in the United States. Export permits that will be seeking to export require an export to that destination in the United States. It doesn’t relate specifically to the conflict in Israel.
I think the question of whether or not the F-35 is being employed in the crisis in Israel is not material to the question of whether or not we grant an export permit. When we have to assess any permit, whether there’s an export or not, we have to have high confidence that, in agreeing to the permit, it’s consistent with our national security requirements and with our international legal obligations.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Yes. So you export them to a central pool in the US, and you wash your hands of any responsibility for them then being used in the genocide in Gaza. That’s how it works, isn’t it? You export them to the US, and you don’t even ask yourself whether or not they’re going to be used in the genocide in Gaza. That’s the process you’ve just told me, isn’t it, Mr Jeffrey?
Mr Jeffrey : Senator, that’s your description of the process. I wouldn’t describe it that way.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Tell me how I’m wrong.
Mr Jeffrey : I’ve described how we contribute to a global supply chain. That supply chain is directed by the United States—
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: So we’ve contracted out these sovereign decisions to the United States? We let them decide.
CHAIR: Senator, allow the witness to finish their answer.
Mr Jeffrey : and in issuing that permit, as I said, we have to have high confidence that, in granting the export, it would not be contributing to a detrimental effect on Australia’s national security or our international legal obligations. Any permit that assesses the export of the F-35 would need to be inclusive of not only the consortium but all the customers within that consortium. The process that I’m describing to you is a holistic one. It requires us to make all the judgements in relation to how those components are used and employed, and we do so accordingly.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Did you look at the fact that Australia is providing more than 70 critical components to the F-35s that are being used by the Israel Defense Forces in the genocide in Gaza? And then you gave it the tick anyhow—is that your evidence? You said, ‘That’s fine, we’ll just keep pumping them into the global supply chain’?
Mr Jeffrey : My evidence is that we are a member of the F-35 consortium. That consortium exists under a memorandum of understanding between the parties. That gives defence industry opportunity to contribute to that supply chain. It also requires Australia to provide those contributions in good faith. How the F-35 program and consortium work more directly can be directed to Mr Deeble, who manages the program from a capability perspective.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: I’m interested in what, if any, due diligence you did before you allowed Australian industry to contribute to a genocide. Are you aware of the fact that Israel has just signed a deal to buy 25 more F-35 fighter jets that they intend to use? Are you aware of that? Has your due diligence included that?
Mr Jeffrey : As you know, the F-35 is a longstanding program. It’s been in operation for at least a decade or more. The permits that we authorise for contribution to that supply chain are assessed on a case-by-case basis, as you would be aware, and we look to factor in all the implications in relation to our national security and our international legal obligations with respect to those permits.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: I’ll just hand you an FOI and some documents that were produced from Defence on F-35, if you could assist, Chair.
CHAIR: We will need to review them first, but we will have a look.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: About two weeks after the conflict in Gaza commenced, Defence removed from its website all the glossy materials about the F-35 and Australian industry involvement in the F-35. Mr Deeble, were you involved in the stripping down of the website? Was that in your patch, Mr Deeble?
Mr Deeble : I’d have to take that on notice. I’m not aware.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Alright. Mr Jeffrey, are you aware of statements by Lockheed Martin, repeated from their Australian subsidiary on multiple occasions, that every F-35 built contains some Australian parts and components and celebrating the more than 70 Australian companies who have contracts for the F-35? Are you aware of those repeated statements by Lockheed Martin Australia?
Mr Jeffrey : I’m not aware of the specific statements you mention. I’m aware of Lockheed Martin from time to time makes public statements in relation to the capability that a number of countries around the world utilise. I’m aware that Australian industry contributes to that supply chain.
CHAIR: Two minutes.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: If I can take you to the FOI, you’ll see that there is the written response and then after that there is a series of documents produced. At the bottom right-hand corner you’ll find some handwritten numbers. I’ll take you to page 9, using the handwritten numbers.
Mr Jeffrey : Are you asking me to comment on a document you’ve just provided me?
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Yes.
Mr Jeffrey : I’m happy to take whatever questions you have in relation to this document on notice.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: You’ll answer them as best you can, I assume, Mr Jeffrey.
Mr Jeffrey : If you want us to spend time reviewing a document, we can do so—
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: I’m going to ask you about page 9.
Mr Jeffrey : and get back to you.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: On page 9, just after halfway down, you’ll see there is an email that’s been sent about the background on the ACS industry wishing to update the CASG web link to ‘reflect the new Australian participation contract value, which exceeds the $4 billion figure, and is a fitting link to have embedded’. Is it your understanding, Mr Jeffrey or Mr Deeble, that the Australian industry now has a $4 billion stake in the F-35 fighter project?
CHAIR: This is your last minute.
Mr Deeble : Our industry engagement dates back to our involvement in the SDD MOU, which is the system design and development, in about the 2002 timeframe. In 2006, we signed up to the production, sustainment and follow-on development MOU. Both of those provided opportunities for Australian industry to participate in the supply chain for the Joint Strike Fighter.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: But, Mr Deeble, my question was about the $4 billion figure. Do you agree on the four—
Mr Deeble : I was about to answer that question, Senator.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Well, please do.
Mr Deeble : The answer is that our companies—over 75 companies—have been able to contribute in the global supply chain for the Joint Strike Fighter program, to a value now of over $4.6 billion.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Good. If I could take you to page 13 of those documents, we’ll look at some of the global supply chain parts. Do you see that diagram?
Mr Deeble : Yes.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Australia is providing to the global supply chain the actuators for the bay door uplocks from Rosebank Engineering, the electronic warfare systems and avionics racks and components from Ferra Engineering, and weapons adaptors from Ferra Engineering, all of which is part of the global supply chain for the F-35. Is that right?
Mr Deeble : Yes, that’s correct.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: That is amongst a series of other parts of the F-35, spread across 75 Australian companies.
Mr Deeble : Yes.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: And they’re being used to bomb Gaza, aren’t they?
CHAIR: I think you’re asking for an opinion there.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: No, it’s not; it’s a question.
Mr Deeble : I can’t answer that question.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Mr Jeffrey, you’ve done your due diligence, or you’re meant to. They’re currently being used to bomb Gaza, aren’t they?
Mr Jeffrey : Senator, I think I’ve testified earlier in my answer—
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: You didn’t check.
Mr Jeffrey : We can’t speak for the IDF and how it engages in force deployment.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: I’m asking about the Australian weapons parts that are on the F-35. They’re currently being used to bomb Gaza, aren’t they?
Mr Jeffrey : Senator, again you’re asking me to confirm what I can’t speak for.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: Because you haven’t looked, because you don’t ask, because there’s a moral vacuum at the heart of our export weapons thing, isn’t there?
CHAIR: Thanks very much. I need to move the call along.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: There’s a moral vacuum here, and you don’t care.
CHAIR: You have the call, Senator Pocock.
Senator LAMBIE: Chair, I was just wondering if I might ask them to table the memorandum of understanding that they have in relation to the F-35. Would they be able to table that to the committee sometime today? That would be helpful. Thank you.