Thank you. Has the government allocated any resources—including funds, hiring of consultants, or personnel—towards obtaining legal advice in response to the referrals of the Prime Minister and other ministers to the International Criminal Court for being liable as accessories to the genocide in Gaza?
Senator THORPE: Thank you. This question is about the Prime Minister’s complicity in the genocide that’s going on in Palestine. Has the government allocated—
CHAIR: Senator Thorpe—
Senator SCARR: Point of order, Chair, on personal reflections: I think we really need to be measured.
CHAIR: We certainly provide a wide berth for commentary in estimates when we’re putting questions, but, Senator Thorpe, that is a personal reflection that you should consider withdrawing.
Senator THORPE: Okay, I withdraw.
CHAIR: Thank you. If you can let the officials know what area this relates to, they’ll be able to get the right people up to the table for you.
Senator THORPE: It’s in relation to the International Criminal Court and the complicity of Australia.
CHAIR: We’ve had questions on the International Criminal Court. The officials are here if you have a question about that. They can answer that.
Senator THORPE: Thank you. Has the government allocated any resources—including funds, hiring of consultants, or personnel—towards obtaining legal advice in response to the referrals of the Prime Minister and other ministers to the International Criminal Court for being liable as accessories to the genocide in Gaza?
Ms Chidgey : I’m not aware of anything that fits that set of facts you’ve just described.
Senator THORPE: This is the first time any serving Australian political leaders have been formally referred to the ICC for investigation. Given the seriousness of the allegations, what steps has the government taken to ensure a thorough and comprehensive legal response to address these allegations?
Ms Jones : I’m not aware of any Australians being referred, if I’ve understood your question correctly.
Senator THORPE: We are signatories to the ICC. There’s a legal case pending. A person may be found to be criminally responsible if that person, ‘for the purpose of facilitating the commission of such a crime, aids, abets or otherwise assists in its commission or its attempted commission, including providing the means for its commission’—for example, providing weapons, which this country does. I’m asking: has there been any advice or resources given to the Prime Minister and other ministers on the ruling in the International Court of Justice?
Ms Jones : The matter that’s before the International Court of Justice is separate to the ICC. Our colleagues in the Office of International Law are the ones that would be able to assist with the matter in the International Court of Justice, and they’re going to be back on at 7.15 tomorrow night.
Senator THORPE: All my questions relate to that, so I may have to wait till then.
CHAIR: Thanks, Senator Thorpe. Do you have any other questions for National Security and Criminal Justice Group, while you’ve got the call?
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: For assistance, just so we don’t bounce back and forth, Senator Thorpe could have been referring to the ICC referral that named the Prime Minister, the Minister for Defence, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Leader of the Opposition. That was an ICC referral made by Birchgrove Legal in March of this year. I don’t know if that’s what Senator Thorpe is referring to, but it could well be.
Senator THORPE: That’s correct. Thank you, Senator Shoebridge.
Ms Chidgey : We’ve got no awareness. My group’s responsibilities go to administering the domestic legislation, the International Criminal Court Act. We’ve had no visibility of those allegations.
Senator THORPE: So no resources have been used for any advice?
Ms Chidgey : I think I’ve just described my group, which has no involvement. I can’t speak for anyone else in government.
Ms Jones : I would need to check with the colleagues who will be appearing tomorrow night. That’s the international law area of the department. I don’t believe we have provided any advice or been requested to provide any advice, but I’d need to have them confirm that.
Senator THORPE: Thank you. I do have another question. Considering the criticism surrounding real or perceived political bias in the Attorney-General’s exercise of fiat powers and the recent referral of the Prime Minister and other ministers directly to the ICC because of the fiat, would the government be open to reforming this system to enhance public scrutiny and oversight over decisions related to prosecutions for serious international crimes? Minister?
Senator Chisholm: It’s not something I’m aware of.
Senator THORPE: The Attorney-General’s fiat?
Ms Chidgey : Senator, are you referring to consent requirements?
Senator SCARR: Yes. She’s referring to the federal act.
Senator SHOEBRIDGE: I assume it’s partly the consent requirements for prosecutions for war crimes under the Criminal Code.
Ms Chidgey : It’s quite a common provision, particularly in this context where there are foreign relations considerations, to have an Attorney-General consent requirement. I think for war crimes there’s an added requirement for proceedings to be brought in the Attorney’s name.
Senator THORPE: Thank you. No further questions.