President Croucher, my office has heard reports of seriously troubling treatment of staff at the AHRC. These allegations include staff being disciplined, informally cautioned or spoken to for signing petitions calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, wearing a keffiyeh, using the phrase ‘from the river to the sea’ on personal social media and even talking about UN press releases about Gaza. This, to me, seems like a pretty toxic and silencing culture and one that sits totally at odds with what the Human Rights Commission is about. Is this happening?
Senator FARUQI: President Croucher, my office has heard reports of seriously troubling treatment of staff at the AHRC. These allegations include staff being disciplined, informally cautioned or spoken to for signing petitions calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, wearing a keffiyeh, using the phrase ‘from the river to the sea’ on personal social media and even talking about UN press releases about Gaza. This, to me, seems like a pretty toxic and silencing culture and one that sits totally at odds with what the Human Rights Commission is about. Is this happening?
Prof. Croucher: I dispute very strongly the premise behind your observation. The welfare of our staff is always a primary concern. The chief executive can speak to a whole range of initiatives. In response to ‘invigorating’ questions at last estimates by Senator Shoebridge, in relation to an anonymous letter, which raised certain issues that are not dissimilar from the points that you are making now, I provided a fulsome response. You’ve used the expression ‘informally’?
Senator FARUQI: Yes, informally cautioned.
Prof. Croucher: We operate very clearly within the framework of the Public Service Code of Conduct expectations of staff. As I explained in my answers and Ms Smith’s answers at the last estimates to which I referred you, it was clear that we reminded staff on at least two occasions—as the union reminded staff—about the code of conduct expectations. The role of commissioners as independent statutory office holders is a different consideration. The role of our staff is within the Public Service. Reminding people of their obligations is an appropriate, responsible and accountable thing for senior leadership within the commission to do. In terms of whether there have been any sanctions or discipline of the kinds that you’re suggesting, I dispute that.
Senator FARUQI: Staff in the AHRC have been spoken to, as in the examples that I have given?
Prof. Croucher: I’m not aware of any such ‘speaking to’.
Senator FARUQI: My office has been contacted by people—some of them are members of the CPSU—who have made these allegations; are they lying?
Prof. Croucher: The nature of the comments or the way that the issues have been described is what I contest. Staff have been reminded of their obligations under the code of conduct, but the suggestion that people have been disciplined or sanctioned in the way that you suggest is completely not what is happening.
Senator FARUQI: Have they been reminded not to wear a keffiyeh?
Prof. Croucher: No.
Senator FARUQI: So AHRC staff are permitted to wear a keffiyeh at work without fear of being spoken to, informally reprimanded or reminded of their obligations?
Prof. Croucher: Senator, it has not arisen.
Senator FARUQI: It has not arisen?
Prof. Croucher: It has not arisen.
Senator FARUQI: What motivation do you think people have to lie about these issues?
Prof. Croucher: It’s not for me to comment about that. I can only comment about our responsibilities as the leadership of the commission to ensure that staff know what’s expected of them and to support them through various channels if they have concerns. If I may, I’d like to invite the chief executive of the commission, Ms Smith, to refer to some of the actions that she has led.
Senator FARUQI: I might come back to that a little later, because I do have some other questions. I want to know how many internal complaints—
Senator Chisholm: Madam Chair, they should be allowed to provide their answer. If the professor wants to additional information via the chief executive, that should be allowed.
CHAIR: Senator Faruqi, if there is additional information on your question, I’m sure that you’d like to hear it. If I can broadly give witnesses some guidance and advice, we have a pretty packed program today, so I think there’s some sensitivity about long answers that might not go to the question that is being asked. As long as it is relevant, and you’ve asked for some additional information, Senator Faruqi, if you don’t mind, the chief executive can add to that answer briefly. Then, if there’s more information that you’re seeking, we can come to that.
Senator FARUQI: Maybe a brief response will be fine, and the rest could be given on notice.
CHAIR: Yes, that’s reasonable.
Ms Smith: Senator, the first we heard of this allegation of a staff member being sanctioned or spoken to was through the letter to the external media that Senator Shoebridge raised last time. As soon as we were put on notice that may have happened, we reached out through our senior leadership team to all of our teams to ask whether anyone had observed or been a recipient of that kind of feedback, and nothing has been forthcoming.
Senator FARUQI: There have been no internal complaints or resignations by staff in the AHRC in relation to issues like this or the AHRC’s handling of Israel’s genocide in Gaza? There have been no complaints or resignations?
Ms Smith: I’m sorry; is that in relation to the keffiyeh question that I was asked to follow up on?
Senator FARUQI: I am referring to the various things that staff have alerted me to, which involve the treatment of staff who might be informally cautioned, or whatever language that you were using, for signing petitions, wearing a keffiyeh, using the phrase ‘from the river to the sea’ or talking about UN press releases. There have been no complaints from staff about their treatment in the AHRC or no resignations because of those issues?
Ms Smith: No individual staff member has complained that they have been subject to that treatment. At the commission, we have a range of mechanisms for staff to give feedback and we meet regularly with staff, such as through commission regular meetings and town hall meetings that statutory office holders don’t attend, where we have very vibrant debates and discussions about a range of things.
Senator FARUQI: No-one has resigned because of the issues that I have raised? President Croucher, you have received no direct communications from anyone within the commission?
Prof. Croucher: Staff resignations are not an appropriate matter to discuss. It’s the same with matters going to complaints. We have complaint mechanisms and an anonymous complaint mechanism; we also have formal complaint mechanisms that are available to staff. If there are issues raised through those, we take them seriously, consider them and act accordingly.
Senator FARUQI: Surely, it’s an appropriate matter to discuss. You are the Australian Human Rights Commission, and it is very concerning to me that, from what I have heard, AHRC has become a pretty hostile workplace for people who are supporting the human rights of Palestinians and speaking out against their genocide. I think you should be concerned about that, and it is a matter of public interest.
Prof. Croucher: Is that a statement, or do you want me to answer?
Senator FARUQI: Yes, it is a statement.
CHAIR: No, we’re not making statements, Senator.