I want to raise an issue of Dr Randa Abdel-Fattah. I wrote to the minister about this particular research project, valued at $837,174. I raised concerns because of the activities of Dr Abdel-Fattah, including promoting the online doxxing scandal against Jewish Australians and publishing an image on her Facebook page of a man parachuting with the parachute in the colours of the Palestinian flag, which is reminiscent of the motorised paragliders used by Hamas terrorists to attack Israelis on 7 October.
Senator HENDERSON: Alright. We will come back to the content of the projects when you get those numbers together. I want to raise an issue of Dr Randa Abdel-Fattah. I wrote to the minister about this particular research project, valued at $837,174. I raised concerns because of the activities of Dr Abdel-Fattah, including promoting the online doxxing scandal against Jewish Australians and publishing an image on her Facebook page of a man parachuting with the parachute in the colours of the Palestinian flag, which is reminiscent of the motorised paragliders used by Hamas terrorists to attack Israelis on 7 October. Dr Abdel-Fattah has also made some very offensive comments in relation to Israel, and I quote from a social media post of 12 February:
… Israel can’t be rehabilitated or saved. This isn’t a rehab project for a state built on theft & ethnic cleansing, sustained on genocide. This is a liberation movement to end a brutal settler colonial apartheid regime that inflicts this misery & enjoys it.
Then, of course, Dr Abdel-Fattah was involved in the kids excursion to Sydney university where she was involved in encouraging children who attended the protest encampment to chant ‘intifada’. In light of all this—and she is under investigation from Macquarie University—have you been liaising with Macquarie University in relation to that investigation?
Dr Johnson: Indeed, we have. The reported activities, prima facie, are concerning, but to us only if there is a nexus to the research project that the individual is undertaking. I will note that the researcher has had two ARC grants. One was approved in December 2017; the second one in September 2022. It is important to preface this evidence with a couple of points. Firstly, the agreements that we undertake are with the universities, not with individuals.
Senator HENDERSON: Yes, I understand that.
Dr Johnson: Secondly, the grants don’t equal all of an individual’s research time. For example, it is usually 0.8 of their time that is spent on the research an 0.2 would be dedicated to performing other things, including university services. Thirdly, we absolutely can’t prejudge the matter and have to respect due process. Having said that, we have engaged with Macquarie University numerous times on this matter, in person and in writing. The first time was on 12 March, then 29 April, 9 May, 28 May, and 3 June. That includes me writing directly to the Deputy Vice-Chancellor (Research) of Macquarie university, who is an incredibly experienced individual, and I’ve sought assurances from Macquarie University regarding the proper undertaking of research in line with the requirements of ARC’s funding agreement. The DVCR has said, in correspondence, that they are considering whether the research is compliant with both the code of conduct and ARC funding requirements as expeditiously as possible, but, of course, they have to follow their own procedures and policies, and it is a complex area because it does also invite such things as questions of employment law, and individual universities’ codes of practice and conduct. We go where the facts take us. We can’t be the primary fact collector in this instance, but we have certainly sought assurances.
Senator HENDERSON: I appreciate you giving that very comprehensive answer. There are a number of issues, and I agree it is very complex, because it relates not just to the Australian Code for the Responsible Conduct of Research and the ARC funding agreement with the university, but also to the terms and conditions of Dr Abdel-Fattah’s employment. In relation to the Australian Code for the Responsible Conduct of Research and the ARC funding agreement, have you ascertained, even prima facie, whether there is any breach of either the code or your funding agreement with the university?
Dr Johnson: That is exactly what we are seeking the information from the university about. Just to give you examples, and at a more general level, there are things like whether there was ethics approval for certain conduct, did the research involve children, and was there approval for that. Those are the sorts of questions that you would expect us to be concerned about, and the university people to be looking at. And, as I said, they are considering whether the research is compliant, and they have given us an undertaking to keep us up to date and informed, as we would expect. So that is where the matter lies at the moment, Senator.
Senator HENDERSON: Do you have a timeline as to when this investigation will be completed?
Dr Johnson: Just on a technical term—and I myself trespassed on this—when we use the word ‘investigation’, we should keep the small ‘i’ there, not the capital ‘I’, because there are technical procedural elements for an investigation, so—
Senator HENDERSON: I understand.
Dr Johnson: So, just with that caveat, as we would all expect—and I think we would all support due process; it is a very important principle—we are respectful of that principle, so we don’t actually have a timeframe that we have been given information about at this point. But, as I say, there has been an undertaking to conduct the considerations as expeditiously as possible.
Senator HENDERSON: Would you be able to table, on notice, the correspondence between the ARC and Macquarie University?
Dr Johnson: I am very happy to take that on notice.
Senator HENDERSON: Have you corresponded with the minister or the department at all?
Dr Johnson: I have had conversations with the department and, of course, as you would expect, we do provide assistance to ministers in terms of correspondence that they receive.
Senator HENDERSON: The minister actually wrote to me on 1 May in response to my letter and indicated, of course, that all research must comply with the Australian Code for the Responsible Conduct of Research. He also indicated that, in any employment matter, the employer is obviously required to follow due process, so you may well have had some input into that letter. But, independent of the university’s employment arrangements with any person, including Dr Abdel-Fattah, you are not yet in a position to make any assessment, even on the terms of the funding agreement—because you are still fact-finding, in other words?
Dr Johnson: In a way, the fact-finding has to take place; Macquarie University has to do the fact-finding, and then one of the pertinencies involved there is whether there is any nexus between any facts that have been found and research undertaken. And we don’t know that. We would have no way of knowing that. As I said, that is why we can’t prejudge the matter, and we absolutely have to respect due process. But we will go to where the facts take us.
Senator HENDERSON: This is a Future Fellowships grant. Putting aside the terms of this individual agreement, what powers do you have to cancel, suspend or terminate an agreement? And what powers do you have to obtain a refund of moneys?
Dr Johnson: It is a very serious consequence, of course, to terminate an agreement with a university, but we have done it in the past. I think—and I might be wrong and this might need to be corrected—we might have done it nine times since 2007. We call them relinquishments, but termination is fine for the conversation we are having. What that involves is that the research project as a whole would be ceased, and in some instances maybe all. We would seek a reimbursement of the allocation that was provided for that project. I know you are aware of this, Senator, but many of the projects we fund actually involve multiple individuals, and it would be the case that, where the project ceases, it affects each individual on the project.
Senator HENDERSON: Thank you so much for that update. Just going back to the quantum of those major projects, do you have any further information?
Dr Johnson: I’m hoping to, and, given that Professor Twomey did all the work while I was answering those questions, Professor Twomey might answer.
Prof. Twomey: Well, the team conducted the work and we are thankful to the team, but our estimate now is $449 million per annum.
Senator HENDERSON: And is that right across the three categories?
Prof. Twomey: That is across the three schemes, yes.
Senator HENDERSON: And that is out of a total, for this financial year, of how much funding?
Prof. Twomey: $895 million.
Dr Johnson: That is for this financial year, 2023-24—just clarifying your question.
Senator HENDERSON: Yes. Okay.
Prof. Twomey: But we can certainly provide you with that information.
Senator HENDERSON: So roughly half, alright. Could you provide, on notice, an update on the status of those major projects. I won’t hold you up now.
Dr Johnson: We are happy to.
Senator HENDERSON: Thank you so much for your time.
CHAIR: Thank you very much for joining us. You are now released.